18: Listening to your body in midlife: Perimenopause, care + reclaiming yourself with Mandy Unruh
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Julie Francis (she/her) (00:00)
Hello and welcome to Holistic Chaos. I'm your host Julie and today I am joined by Mandy and I'm so thrilled to have Mandy here with us today. Mandy is an intuitive tarot reader and astrology enthusiast whose background includes birth work, fitness, massage, writing and cooking. She views herself as a helper who loves to connect deeply and help people know themselves. Thank you so much for being here Mandy.
Mandy (00:27)
Of course, thank you. ⁓
Julie Francis (she/her) (00:30)
I'm so excited to dive in and have ⁓ this wonderful conversation with you today. And I'm just thrilled to get to connect with you again in this way. ⁓ Previously, Mandy and I have connected and we've never done a podcast episode together before. So this is really exciting to learn more about you and your journey and
everything that's come of it for you.
Mandy (01:01)
Thank
you. Thank you. I'm so happy to be here. It's early morning here. It's still dark out.
Julie Francis (she/her) (01:07)
I appreciate you being here and I know others do as well. So we're gonna like just dive right in and I'm gonna just kick it off with one of the big, big questions I like to ask folks. that's that, what has been the biggest what the fuck moment for you in midlife and how has it changed you?
Mandy (01:37)
Okay, well, yeah, so I would say perimenopause, which I'm sure I won't be the first person to say that won't be the last. ⁓ Yeah, it's been so it's 2025. So it's been honestly, probably four years now that I look back of like, ⁓ because I live in America and healthcare is broken, and I am self employed and my husband is self employed. And so therefore we can't afford
good insurance and I don't even know if that's a thing anymore. It's getting crazier and crazier. It's like getting actual support from like medical people is sort of the last thing that I want to do. So my hope was like that I was just going to like take herbs and like be one with nature. But then I started getting really severe symptoms. And so now I'm like, like, so I've had a hysterectomy.
I'm on hormone replacement. Like I'm actually getting hormone replacement today and ⁓ it's expensive and it's frustrating and it's, it's like, want to say embarrassing and I'm not someone that gets embarrassed, but it's like, it's just a lot. It's just a lot to navigate and
it's not that it's embarrassing, but it feels very personal. And then you have to sort of like, put yourself out there, like literally and metaphorically, in order to like get this help. And then again, going back to the insurance, you know, like the provider that I had do my surgery, like I don't really like, but it's who was in my network. So yeah, so it's just
Julie Francis (she/her) (03:14)
Yeah.
that's really
hard.
Mandy (03:31)
Yeah, and so then yesterday I met with a pelvic floor therapist that I actually feel really good about and really safe with and of course doesn't take insurance. So it's like, okay, so here's another $1,000 that we just have to come up with in order for me to not have my organs fall out of my body.
Julie Francis (she/her) (03:50)
Yeah, that is really frustrating. That is, and this, so this is your journey point now after years of navigating this.
Mandy (03:56)
Yeah.
Yeah, well, like, and as a birth worker, too, I've always thought, you know, every single person who gives birth, it should be part of the medical plan, at the very least, to have a consult with a pelvic floor therapist after and because and partially, it's me too, like I'm not great at self care and but it but it's definitely tied into that financial piece too. So it's like my kids 14 and I'm going.
Julie Francis (she/her) (04:20)
Yeah.
Mandy (04:33)
I'm going now, you know, and it's only because my symptoms are severe enough. But as a as a birth worker, as a practitioner, I can't tell you how many people I've sent to pelvic floor therapists. So it's so that part's interesting, too. You know, it's like you I want you to have it, but I won't give it to myself because I don't feel like I'm worthy of it or like I'm going to figure it all out on my own until, know, I'm bleeding for six weeks and that's like, OK, well, I guess I have to.
Julie Francis (she/her) (04:45)
Yeah, it is.
Mandy (05:03)
I can't do this by myself. Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (05:03)
Yeah. Yeah.
Well, finally, obviously the physical symptoms really pushed you. But like, what kind of conversations were you having with yourself when you finally were like, I've, I've got to do this? Like, when did you, like, are you in a spot now where you feel like you are more worthy? Are you still struggling with that piece?
Mandy (05:11)
Yeah.
Well, that's yeah, it's really it's really interesting and I feel like it for me it really ties back to birth. So before I got pregnant, I was like, I've always loved the I've loved the idea of pregnancy and birth like literally since I was a teenager just so fascinated and I was like, I'm and I and I wanted to have a home birth and I wanted to do all these things. And then when I got pregnant when I actually physically got pregnant, I was like, I think I want
all the drugs. think I to think about all the things. When it got real, I was like, ⁓ no. And so I ended up going to an OB and I had such a negative experience with the OB and just feeling like a number and not feeling heard and not feeling listened to and feeling like I wasn't having, you know, what I wanted like, and I didn't feel respected, all those things. And so I went to an appointment with a midwife and literally after one appointment, I was like,
Oh my God, like just the difference in care between midwifery and obstetrics. there's exceptions to the rules, but my experience. So I ended up going with the midwife, having a home birth. Like the whole thing was amazing, became a doula. And so this experience is definitely mirroring that, but sort of in the reverse. I ended up getting like, hang on, my mail just popped open.
Okay. Go away, go away, go away. Can you see that? Sorry. Sorry. My laptop, yeah. No, my laptop for some reason, like my mail will just like pop open. So hopefully it doesn't do that again. What was I saying? What was I saying? Okay. So this experience of the hysterectomy, it sort of was like that in reverse because I was getting like well-women care and everything from midwives.
Julie Francis (she/her) (07:00)
We just got really brave.
Mandy (07:25)
And then when I had this and then I found a family doctor that I feel really good about and she feels like a midwife to me. And what I mean by that is like they take their time and they like look me in the eye and I don't feel like as soon as they enter the room, they're trying to leave the room. And so but when I develop basically I developed fibroids. So I have this lovely family doctor. She feels like a midwife. But then it's like, ⁓ you have uterine fibroids.
Julie Francis (she/her) (07:42)
Yeah. Yeah.
Mandy (07:54)
as family practitioner, there's nothing she can do. So she's like, I have to hand you over to this OB. Okay, you only have this many OBs that are a network of those OBs. We only have so many that perform surgery, the type of surgery that I needed. So I end up with this OB and it literally was almost like a PTSD experience of how I felt with the OB when I was pregnant. And I was like, I'm back here.
Julie Francis (she/her) (08:24)
Yeah.
Mandy (08:24)
It was almost
like a trauma response. So I don't know if that answered your question. feel like I'm talking in sarcophagus.
Julie Francis (she/her) (08:32)
Is it okay? But this is huge and it's hard to not feel like you're talking in circles because some of the things you're talking are literally biologically cyclical and then some of them don't, like you're not, you're still in it. Like you're still going through these things and even, you said even just yesterday you met with this person that is really wonderful but you're facing these other obstacles like...
Mandy (08:44)
Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (08:59)
It's just never ending. like to, cause in your mind is like, right, I want to mention this thing, but then there was also this thing way over here that connects this. yeah, that makes total sense.
Mandy (09:08)
Well, and it actually,
and it's cyclical in that way too of like, so I have this OB that's covered by my insurance, but you know, and so, and sort of what's happening now is I had the hysterectomy and now I've got other stuff going on, went to him and he wants to just do another surgery. And I'm like, I don't want that. It hasn't been six months. Like when I check in with my body, my body's like, no thank you. Like I don't want, and so I thought I,
Julie Francis (she/her) (09:29)
Yeah.
Mandy (09:39)
want to do everything that I can before, like I want that to be the last resort. So hence the pelvic floor therapist, who again, feels amazing, feels so good to me and my spirit and everything that she said. And it was so resonant. And again, it's like with the with the OB, he's just telling me what he sees and what he wants to do. He's not telling me anything about how my body body mechanics are working, how
Other things that I can do he spends three minutes says I'm want to cut you open again. Goodbye Have a nice day. Whereas this other person this pelvic floor therapist spent 90 minutes with me showed me all the body mechanics, you know at how everything works and how everything's affecting everything and again, it feels it feels very tied back to that sort of like home birth midwifery model and and of course, it's outside the system and it's like I paid cash for my birth and I'm like
Julie Francis (she/her) (10:31)
Yeah.
Mandy (10:36)
I guess I'm paying cash for this. And I guess, you know, I'm worth that. I don't know. And then the idea of like trying to fight with the insurance company to see if they'll cover anything. But it's like, it's very triggering.
Julie Francis (she/her) (10:41)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Mandy (10:54)
feeling like you
fight all the time.
Julie Francis (she/her) (10:58)
For what feels like basic human care. Good basic human care. We're not talking like just bare minimum. We're not talking about that three minute visit. Yeah, like it makes a huge difference to be seen, to be heard, ⁓ have your thoughts or question reflected back to you. And then yeah, you're not just a check mark on a list. It's...
Mandy (11:03)
Right.
Julie Francis (she/her) (11:25)
So when you've been going through this, what has been helping you ⁓ find your footing or gain some traction or develop a foundation amidst all of these changing and difficult things going on?
Mandy (11:44)
What has been helping? What has been helping? ⁓
Julie Francis (she/her) (11:47)
I love, I'm
so appreciative that you just said that because when I think about my own life and what's helping me, sometimes I feel like that. I'm like, ⁓ yeah, what is helping right now in this moment?
Mandy (12:03)
What is helping right now in this moment? Well, I have a very supportive partner and he's, so we've been having lots of really nice conversations and like.
this last round of going to the doctor and him saying he wants to do another procedure. like I was my my mind was very much split, you know, and on the one hand, I was like, this doesn't feel right. I want to I really want to understand what's going on. I want to and I want to try to do everything that I can to help myself and my body heal versus just cutting it again. But then the other part was like, ⁓ I met my deductible this year, so maybe I can get this in really quick and it'll be free.
And that was, but that was totally based on like financial fear. And so I have this partner who was like, heard that whole thing and he was like, okay, so if it, if it wasn't about the money, if it wasn't like, what would you do? And that was so, it was so clear. I was like, there's no question, you know, so then it just, so that's been really helpful. Just like remembering like,
that that I am worthy of care and I guess trusting that the financial piece will be okay. ⁓ That's been helping. I don't know what else has been helping. I guess talking about it. This is helping.
Julie Francis (she/her) (13:33)
Yeah.
That's the when anything becomes a balance of what you really feel.
Yeah, yeah, I'm the same way talking about things helps. And, and when you're talking about fine, when there's a financial piece involved, you know, that wears on our bodies and our minds and our spirits so much in its own way. And
It's always there. even for at least for me, my own experience, if I'm making a decision and I'm like, this is what I need, feels good desire, you whatever the thing is, but there's a financial aspect over here. I can trust, I will, I will figure out the financial piece. We will figure that out. You know, it's fine. And yes, that is the road that I will often take, but that
Mandy (14:18)
Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (14:25)
doesn't mean the weight of this other thing is it's not just gone, it's still there. It's always every once in a while, like pokes me and it's like, hey, have you forgotten that this is a concern of yours? And, and just continuing to return to that value that's guiding me in that moment is, is helpful, at least to move away from that piece. And then there's some times where it's like, okay, in this moment, I'll have to make this smaller financial decision to make this larger thing work.
Mandy (14:42)
Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (14:55)
you know, some of those compromises that feel really crappy sometimes.
Mandy (14:59)
Well, another thing that came up for me too, and like my partner will remind me of this is when I give to myself, because it's very hard for me to do that. But when I do, I feel to get a little woo woo. The universe always meets me. So like, for example, we went on a vacation this summer and we hadn't, we didn't do anything this summer before. ⁓ And so we did, and it was like, I mean, it wasn't like.
cheapest ticket, but we were just very, we were very generous with ourselves. We just, we just work. And, and then when like the last few days of the vacation, all of a sudden, like all this work just started to come in and just stuff that I like didn't plan, didn't like try to make happen. Now my dog's barking. so I, I feel like without exception when I choose to give to myself,
Julie Francis (she/her) (15:31)
Yeah.
It's okay.
Mandy (15:54)
it comes back. And then the other funny thing was the amount of money for the assessment for the public for therapist is the exact amount that I charge for my tarot and astrology readings, like the exact amount. And I was like, I don't think that's a mistake. That's a coincidence. Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (16:08)
Hmm.
Yeah.
That's cool. That's
really nice when things that are supportive like that come through. And it reinvigorates that trust. if, yeah, exactly. Yeah, totally. So tell me about like,
Mandy (16:22)
Yeah.
So I'm here again, I'm here again being like, okay, here it is, okay, know.
Julie Francis (she/her) (16:39)
as you've been finding your footing and like what parts of yourself do you feel like you're trying to reclaim? Like, and if it's helpful to think of what parts of yourself maybe you've lost along the way to then consider what you're reclaiming, that's, you know, that's a very full circle question.
Mandy (17:02)
I don't know if this totally answers
the question, but one thing that I'm finding really interesting as I age, so like I just turned 49 and so that feels big. It feels like, ooh, next birthday is gonna be 50, which just feels so weird. And I've always had a lot of fear of aging, like physically, and it's happening and I see it happening, but what's cool, and I always relate things back to birth, like,
Julie Francis (she/her) (17:23)
Yeah.
Mandy (17:33)
Like when I was in labor, I remember I was like, and I watched the Business of Being Born and there was that resonant part where the woman said, you're gonna like hit the wall, you're gonna hit a wall. That's like part of the process. And then you're gonna learn that there's something beyond the wall. And I feel like it's the same way with aging, where like, I'll go through periods where I'm like, okay, I'm fully a monster now, like it's happened, you know, or it's like the moment where I like you look in the mirror and you're like,
it's my mom, like, so I guess I just won't have mirrors. But then there's something beyond it. There's like, then this like acceptance comes. And it's so that is really, really cool. It's really cool to like go through periods where it's like, ⁓ gosh, okay. That's different. That's lower. And then, but then the day comes where you're like, cute.
Julie Francis (she/her) (18:10)
Yeah.
Mandy (18:31)
out this, you know? So I always think like it's aging but make it fashion. So it's kind of a fun, it's kind of fun in a weird way because you, I keep what it feels like and it's again, I always tie it back to birth like in labor. So it's like if you choose to like not medicate during your labor like you're gonna feel sensation.
and then the hormones are going to meet the sensation and then you're going to da da da. And it's what it's what it feels the same way. It feels like I'm like walking and it's like I lose myself and then it's like, you are girl. You're you're doing good. And it's like, god. And it's like, hi, you're doing great. It's fine. You know, and like, you know, it's like, I'll notice I'll notice a new age spot. And I'm like, okay, there. And then I'm like, girl, it's fine. So
Julie Francis (she/her) (19:02)
Yeah.
Mandy (19:24)
especially I live in Southern California and I'm choosing not to like intervene and I have a lot of intervening in my circle you know so yeah and
Julie Francis (she/her) (19:35)
⁓ yeah, that's hard.
Mandy (19:40)
So, sometimes I feel like I'm like my own experiment. And when I can like be in that lightness about it, then it's kind of like really, it's kind of fun and it's definitely very interesting.
Julie Francis (she/her) (20:00)
I love how you just described that. Like, I absolutely love it. And I've lived it. And like, I couldn't put words to it, but you just described things that I'm going through. and like, actually that moment where I remember the first time I hit that point where I was like, oh, it's okay. You know, when you're talking about your different moments. And I remember being like,
what's different now that's making this okay? Like what is it? Like, yeah, why am I suddenly okay with this like sunspot or eight spot? Or like, why am I suddenly less upset about those lines that are coming in on my face? Or like, you know, how difficult it is to get in shape, you know, all these different things. And when we're talking, you know, physical.
For sure, I'm like, what is different? And for me, one of the things that I've been really noticing is that something about my confidence is different. And it's not 100 % all the time, because I can tell you, there's plenty of times where I've been like, I have no libido, I have zero confidence, I feel like a leaf in the wind, and I'm like nothing. But then also, I can go out and attack something that I want to pursue.
Mandy (21:03)
Hmm.
Right.
Julie Francis (she/her) (21:21)
with a confidence I've never had before in my life. Still while also feeling like a limp noodle, like not sexy. ⁓ Sometimes it's paired with being super confident and super sexy feeling. I love those days, ⁓ but I've learned not to constantly rely on them because turns out they're few and far between sometimes. ⁓
Mandy (21:35)
Hmm?
of like being in a long-term relationship with yourself. It's like we're married to ourselves. And so, you know, I've been married for 17 years now. So I've it's been long enough that I'm like, sometimes I don't like you. I'm not into you. Like I wish you'd stop breathing. And then but the eye but I stay, I stay. And then it's like, whatever. Two weeks later, I'm like, you're so cute. Like, look how fun you are. You're so funny. Like, I love just hanging out with you.
And.
Julie Francis (she/her) (22:14)
It's a really
good example.
Mandy (22:17)
Yeah, so it's like I'm choosing to stay in this experience of being Mandy and and and yeah and two and then also that's that's and that's a benefit of getting older as well as we we just continue to like learn and learn and learn that like these the the not sexy and the and the I'm a monster and whatever they're just feelings I mean yeah it's also hormones and that's very real.
Julie Francis (she/her) (22:45)
Yeah.
Mandy (22:46)
So
it's not that it's just feelings, but the feelings change. just, continue to like learn that it's like, I can sit with anything because I know that it will change, you know.
Julie Francis (she/her) (23:00)
Yeah,
that is the best reminder sometimes because sometimes it's so easy to be like, this is going to happen or I want this outcome or I want this, but just to be like, to let it just be open, like this will change. I don't know how or when or why, but this will change. And that's sometimes like enough.
Mandy (23:14)
Mm-hmm.
Yep.
Julie Francis (she/her) (23:22)
And
I think one of the things that I've really been thinking about with being in midlife and like people in their 40s and 50s is like, I feel like we sit with a lot more discomfort than we ever have in previous generation, or sorry, previous decades of our lives. And the discomfort is just so wide sprawling.
Mandy (23:39)
Yeah. Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (23:46)
Like it goes backwards, it goes forwards, it considers so much. And I think that's a big part of this. And when we're talking about that.
Mandy (23:55)
Yes. Yeah, definitely. It's like mortality.
You've got aging parents in the front. You've got kids growing up in the back. You've got here right now. And then, and I'm doing a lot of like projecting forward to being like, and then the next thing is that I'm old and then I'm the dead one. So awesome. Like, can't wait for that.
Julie Francis (she/her) (24:13)
Yeah, I know!
Like how do I
feel about that and how do I want to...
Mandy (24:24)
But it raises the bar, right? It raises the bar with
how we spend our time. And that's why I think, you know, like, that's one of the reasons I'm studying astrology seriously now. I've loved it my whole life and never thought that I could be good enough at it to do it professionally. ⁓ Because I, it's hard for me to learn it. I love it so much. And it's very hard for me to learn it. So I would just sort of like let it hang out in the orbit, you know, but like,
in 2023, decided no, I am like diving in. And I think part of it is being in this midlife and just thinking, how do I want to spend my time? Like, I really want to spend my time, the time that I have left doing stuff I'm really, really into. Like, it just doesn't it doesn't feel like there's time left to just be like doing stuff all day that I that doesn't light me up.
Julie Francis (she/her) (25:16)
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And I love that this confidence is helping you pursue astrology, even though it's been challenging or felt like untenable. Now you're just like, I'm doing it. You're like, I am just so gonna just dive in. That's awesome. I want to talk more about like, what else you're doing in your life to just glow like hell anyway, despite
like everything, like what are you doing?
Mandy (25:50)
I think I'm listening to my intuition more. And again, another benefit of getting older too is like, is accepting like who we are. I do a lot of different things and for so long I would really judge myself about that. And I'd be like, you need to pick a lane. You need to, because I thought I was like, you have to pick a lane and then you have to be the best at that thing. And now I'm finally like, maybe I don't. And also like,
I'm listening to the universe more and it's like in the last few months I've done lactation consult, you know, I'm a lactation consultant. I've been doing lactation consults. I'm back to doing massage. did prenatal massage, regular massage. I catered a party. I've done tarot and astrology readings ⁓ and I'm a fitness instructor and I just decided to ⁓
get hired at, I just got hired at a new place and it's so I've stopped resisting being a beginner or trying out a new thing. So I really like put to bed this idea of like, I need to pick one thing and then I need to be the best at it. I'm letting myself, I'm just like, okay, well this is Mandy. Mandy does eight or nine things. She really enjoys it and maybe she's not the best at any of it.
but I'm showing up for it because it feels really good and it's helpful to others. So, yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (27:25)
Yeah.
Yeah, the confidence just to pursue what interests you and what lights you up. That's awesome.
Mandy (27:34)
and to
like let go of the idea that I'm too old to start over.
Julie Francis (she/her) (27:42)
Yes, let's dig into that one for a moment because that one I am adamantly against to be too old to do something and yet every now and again there's a couple topics in my life where that pops up for me in my mind and I'm like, where did you come from? When does that start being a thing in the back of my mind? So tell me more about that.
Mandy (27:44)
Yeah.
Yeah, well, I'm like, so I just started at this new, I'm a bar instructor. And so I just started at this new Pilates place and the owner of the Pilates place is like in her like early thirties. And I was like, so I was in this training with her and she's lovely and two other people. And I thought I'm 15 years older than everyone in this room, but I didn't feel and like maybe like five years ago, I would have been like horrified and I didn't, it, feels
I feel a little bit like an alien. feel a little bit like, and then there's some swirling thoughts of like, how are they perceiving me? Because I feel like I'm just a peer, but I'm like, I'm lot older than them. So I'm a little bit curious as to like what their sort of side of it is. But then also I don't really care. I'm like, she's hiring me. She thinks I don't do a good enough job that she wants me to be here.
Julie Francis (she/her) (29:06)
Yeah.
Mandy (29:08)
And same with the astrology. I still have the thoughts too. You better hurry up and get into a school and get legitimate. Because who's going to want an astrologer who's 51 or 52? I'm like, people that want an astrologer is 51 or 52. it's so strange. It's so strange.
Julie Francis (she/her) (29:27)
Great! Great!
It is so strange. It's like our people are out
here. Like the people we're meant to connect with. And like one of the things I think about all the time when I'm at the gym, I think about, I think about what my mind tends to gravitate when I'm perceiving people around me. And then one of the things that I've been doing lately is I've been very intentionally been like,
Mandy (29:37)
Yes.
Julie Francis (she/her) (29:57)
mind, forget what you think you know based on what the world tells you and just be really psyched for this person over here that's doing this, doing this, because they're at this chapter in their life and they're in this age or generation and like just be really excited for them because I think back like I had my time in my 20s, I had my time in my 30s, I had those experiences so like for me to look back on like a missing
or even like a jealous, because sometimes I think there's a little bit of jealousy that pops up and I'm like, oh, that feels interesting. Like I'm very aware of it. And I'm like, you should sit down jealousy. let's take a minute and like think this through and think about the opportunities that I have now at this age. And like you just said, who's going to want a 50 or 51 year old astrologer? People that want a 50 or 51 year old astrologer. Like we're not all of sudden like,
Mandy (30:30)
You
Right. Right.
Julie Francis (she/her) (30:52)
insignificant or not needed even though that's how we're meant to feel.
Mandy (30:54)
I think it's cultural too. I think
culturally like we're don't like in America we don't respect our elders and so there's this sort of feeling of like being young and being like I gotta do it, I gotta do it. It's like this big race because there's gonna there's like an expiration date and then as you're actually doing it it's more of an experience of like coming through a tunnel and being like ⁓ there's actually all this space here.
you know, I didn't start teaching fitness until you can really tell my Saturn is like really working in my chart. You know, it's like there's definitely for me like I definitely am sort of a late bloomer. I didn't start teaching fitness until I was like 43, I think. And when I started, I was like, Oh, I've got like five years max, you know, because I'm going to age, I'm going to age out like who's like, you know, no one's going to want to see me at the front of the thing with some tights on, you know, but like, but then as the older I get, the more I'm like,
Julie Francis (she/her) (31:32)
Thank
Mandy (31:53)
it actually feels more expansive. now I'm at a place where I'm like, I think I'm going to teach until I don't want to teach anymore because people in their 70s, 80s, they want to exercise. And it's the same with the astrologer. It's like, maybe not everyone would want to take my class, but there's going to be some people that are going to be like, thank God we've got this chicken or 50s leading me. I don't want someone who's 22 with no pores to lead, you That's not what I want.
Julie Francis (she/her) (32:15)
Yeah.
You
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think, my gosh, you just said so much that resonated. And I love what I'm feeling right now. And I'm gonna remember this, is that when you're like, it's expansive. When you just said that to me, I was like, I am toying with that idea. But I hadn't put the word expansive to it. It was a little more nebulous, but like,
Mandy (32:23)
Right?
Thank you.
Mm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (32:53)
expansive creates some sort of container that suggests I can decide what's in it. But like, without limits, obviously, because it's expansive. Something just shifted for me when you said that and like your visual. So I love that. Oh my God. So good. And I love it.
Mandy (32:59)
Yeah. Yeah.
Good. Well, I love
that you're creating this container too. I definitely think a part of what helps us reclaim is to have other women and people that are experiencing this change to be together and be talking. Yeah, I have some other friends that are doing some similar things. And when we get together as a group, it's like, it's really powerful. And it really feels like
Julie Francis (she/her) (33:33)
Yeah
Mandy (33:36)
we could change the world. We're in our power. And we kind of don't have any any F's to give anymore. Because it does because it it doesn't feel like time's running out, but it definitely feels like it's finite.
Julie Francis (she/her) (33:38)
Yes! I'm so glad that you're excited about this, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Mandy (33:56)
So there's so that that coupled together. it's like, yeah, but I definitely think communities like critical, critical. Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (34:04)
Me too, me
too. And I can feel it just in our conversation here together where I'm like feeling jazzed. And as you said, like I could take over the world. Like, yeah, like let's just go do it. Like it's just so invigorating to be in a space created by like-minded folks going through similar experiences that like, yeah, we're valid. And despite lots of other programming or learnings, like, yeah, we're here. We have something to say about it.
Mandy (34:25)
Yes.
Yeah. Well, and thank you.
It's actually helping me reframe because I've been such a physical experience right now and it's helping me remember like, it's not, it's not just that. Like,
to not frame it as like my body is broken and failing, but to look at it as this is a change that I can do things to support, if that makes sense, right? Rather than feeling like it's like a disease or it's like a disorder. It's like, no, things are shifting and I have choices within that.
Julie Francis (she/her) (34:56)
Yeah, it does. Yeah.
Yes.
Mandy (35:11)
So
thank you. This is actually helping my day.
Julie Francis (she/her) (35:16)
Awesome, my gosh. And I know so many of our listeners and our viewers
are gonna be feeling that same thing. Like I just, I can feel it. So I wanna ask you as we finished today, I wanna ask you if you had one message to help folks that are navigating their own chaos in midlife, what would it be?
Mandy (35:41)
I would say listen to your body.
Like come back to yourself and just don't be in a rush and don't be in a hurry and sit with whatever's coming up.
because that's where the truth is and to remember that you always have choices.
Julie Francis (she/her) (36:07)
⁓ yeah. ⁓ those are good. And I like those two together.
Mandy (36:08)
Yeah.
Julie Francis (she/her) (36:12)
Yeah.
Mandy (36:16)
Yeah, like staying out of here, like calm down and then and talk about it. Find a friend, find a circle, find a coven.
Like you're not alone. You're not alone. ⁓
Julie Francis (she/her) (36:33)
Yeah.
Yeah, those are good. ⁓
Mandy (36:44)
It's big. It's really
big. It's really big.
big deal. You're welcome. Thank you.
Julie Francis (she/her) (36:47)
Thank you. Thank you so
much. I've enjoyed our conversation so much and I'm gonna be thinking of you as you continue to navigate the situations and frustrations, not just to mention symptoms and other things that are just so in your face. ⁓ And I really...
appreciative of you just sharing so openly and authentically about what's going on for you because I know that it helps so many folks. Like you said, you're not alone. And until someone comes out and says you're not alone and here's why, we just continue to feel alone. So thank you so much for sharing.
Mandy (37:30)
My
pleasure. Thank you for having me.
Julie Francis (she/her) (37:34)
Yeah, absolutely. I look forward to connecting with you again soon.
Mandy (37:39)
Awesome.
Julie Francis (she/her) (37:41)
Be well.
Mandy (37:42)
Okay, thank you. Have a great day.
Julie Francis (she/her) (37:44)
You too. ⁓
In this episode, I sit down with Mandy Unruh, an intuitive tarot reader and astrology enthusiast whose work has woven through birth support, fitness, massage, writing, and the kind of helping that comes from deep listening.
Mandy shares her biggest midlife WTF moment, perimenopause, and the long, exhausting, deeply personal road of trying to get the care her body has been asking for. We talk about what it is like to navigate symptoms that push you past the point of white-knuckling it, the frustration of broken healthcare systems, and the tenderness of needing support in ways that feel both vulnerable and necessary.
Together, we explore what changes when you stop overriding yourself. The difference between being rushed and being truly seen. The courage it takes to choose what feels right in your body even when fear, money, and urgency are pulling the wheel. We also talk about the quiet healing of being met by a partner who helps you return to your values, and the strange, meaningful moments when the universe seems to mirror back that you are worth the investment.
If you are moving through a chapter of life where your body feels unfamiliar, your confidence is shifting, or you are learning to trust yourself in new ways, you will find so much resonance here.
Let’s talk about what becomes possible when you listen to your body, stay close to your truth, and remember that you always have choices.
Connect with Mandy (she/her/they/them)
Website: https://www.mandyunruh.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mandyunruh/
