17: Leaving the life that looked perfect: Values, alignment + reclaiming yourself with Rosa Hope, PhD
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Julie Francis (she/her) (00:00)
Hello and welcome to Holistic Chaos. I'm your host Julie. I'm an astrologer and founder of Wild Radiance Collective. And today I am joined by Rosa Hope PhD. And she is an award-winning astrophysicist, mentor, and mystic who bridges science and spirit. She guides transformational journeys that empower others to connect with their deepest wisdom, embody spiritual truth, and live with clarity, authenticity, and purpose.
Thank you so much for being here today, Rosa. I am really excited to talk with you.
Rosa Hope, PhD (00:35)
Yeah, thanks for having me Julie. I'm happy to have our little chat.
Julie Francis (she/her) (00:40)
This is going to be such a great conversation. As you all know, I always end up chatting with the guests before we start. And I can just tell that this is going to be one that you're probably going to really enjoy. And also maybe you want to like have a notepad ready because I feel like Rosa is going to drop some gems that are making you go like, Whoa, like, okay, let's, let's remember that one for later. So Rosa, we're going to dive right in. We want to hear what has been.
your biggest what the fuck moment in midlife.
Rosa Hope, PhD (01:14)
To put it simply, I learned very clearly that just because everything in your life looks successful on paper doesn't necessarily mean that it feels that way in your heart and in your body. So, as you mentioned, I'm a PhD astrophysicist. ⁓ I mean, I'm not trying to brag here. Maybe I can call it like my moose medicine.
I've won some of the most prestigious awards a researcher at my career stage can get. Everything looked really clear. It was easy for me to find jobs. It was like the red carpet was rolled out while I'm like studying the universe, which sounds really sexy. You know what I mean? So like everything looked really good. Everything looked good on paper. The research is coming out like it's high impact. It's all working. I felt like shit. I felt awful.
⁓ My hair was falling out. I was stressed out all the time. I was getting like really angry about things that don't even make sense. Like just commuting to go into the office. It was like the worst thing in my life or something. And it's just like being in the car, right? You can listen to a podcast or an audio book or just music that you love. There are ways that that can be okay, but it's like I couldn't stand it.
So I was completely unregulated from an emotional standpoint. ⁓ My health was a wreck. I wasn't sleeping. I was tired all the time. ⁓ And you know, I had to take a really good assessment of my life and look around and be like, what is the issue? And my home life looked really beautiful. I have a great family. I love my little house. ⁓ But it's like I could see that it was the work. That just because on paper, I looked like a perfect fit.
to do that work and have that career doesn't mean that it's right for me. And the way I put that now is that just because you can doesn't mean you should. And that was my biggest moment is realizing that it was literally killing my body. was, mean, like I said, I was losing my hair. I had like symptoms of autoimmune disease. Being in the wrong lifestyle or being in the wrong job or career can like physically destroy you.
and that was happening to me and that was a really big wake up call.
Julie Francis (she/her) (03:40)
Wow. Yeah, I think I really like your example of driving to work. You're like, this is a simple task that I've normally been able to manage just fine. And it can actually look back on and say like, I could be doing these activities during it and make it a little bit more joyous, but it was, that was the thing. And like, when our bodies start responding, sometimes I feel like,
Rosa Hope, PhD (03:41)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (04:09)
I know in my own experience, like it's not always my body that I'm paying attention to first at this stage in my life. It is the things like, I'm getting angry at my kids or I'm getting angry, you know, about these random things or like, ⁓ I'm yelling at the pots and pans because they're not going how I want in the cabinet, you know, like those are the things I tend to notice before some of the things where your body's maybe already screaming at you. So I think that's a really good example.
Rosa Hope, PhD (04:38)
Well, totally and also like being in research and being in science is so cerebral and so intellectual that there's there is no messaging to like listen to your body. There's no messaging to like listen to your intuition. Right. So all of the all of the pressure around career success is focused on intellectualizing everything and problem solving from that standpoint constantly.
So in a sense, just to be able to hear my body took me actually creating an opposing force against the messaging I was surrounded by. I had to take the initiative to push back and ask these questions and do the self-inquiry and check in and say, I'm not sick because I have an illness. I'm sick because I'm doing the wrong thing for me. And I wanna note that like,
It doesn't feel this way for everybody else. I have colleagues that are still in the field and still doing research that are delighted. They love their job. They love that environment. It's not like it's poison to everybody, right? But it's almost like they're aspects of that lifestyle or aspects of that career that were toxic to me, right? So I'm not trying to throw all of science or all of research under the bus. It's more that I realized
even if I was able to do it, even if I was able to be wildly successful at it, that didn't mean it was the right path for me.
Julie Francis (she/her) (06:11)
Yeah, that goes back to
your just because I can doesn't mean I should. Yeah, that I think that's really valuable because we're often once we get on a path, especially as we get into, you know, our late 30s and 40s and we're navigating what we want to do next or sometimes the bigger question is what am I leaving behind or. ⁓
Rosa Hope, PhD (06:15)
That's right.
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (06:36)
setting aside if I take this certain path. And I think that giving people permission to explore those other paths is one of the biggest hurdles. It's that it's just making the decision for it to be okay. And it doesn't switch on and off either. It's not like, and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this. When we make a decision like, okay, I'm gonna do this because this is what feels right.
Rosa Hope, PhD (06:51)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (07:06)
It's not just one and done. It's a continual process. And I feel like it takes years to stop and then be like, okay, yeah, I'm happy with that. And I did let these other things go, but I've worked in this direction. Have you experienced some of that?
Rosa Hope, PhD (07:09)
Right.
Yeah, so there's actually two things you said that kind of sparked something for me. And the first is about the stage of life. So I'm 40. And there is some deeper truth in the fact that I wouldn't have abandoned that career if I was 27 right now. You know what I mean? Our bodies change, our circumstances change, our priorities change.
When I was in my 20s, I was single. I had enormous amounts of energy and stamina and could pull all-nighters no problem. Where I am now, I have a family. I have a home to take care of and a child to raise. And honestly, a 40-year-old body is just not a 27-year-old body. what I have, what I can sustain, the amount of effort I can sustain and the type of work that I can.
⁓ That I can sustain in my body is just different than what it was before ⁓ I've also found that my values have shifted enormously since that time I cared much more about ⁓ Achievement and external validation in my 20s than I do now ⁓ I think that was a big part of this you mentioned giving yourself permission
That's big work for some people because I mean, I don't know, I've always been kind of a rebel in some ways. So it wasn't as hard for me to just turn away and say, I don't care what anybody thinks. I don't want to feel like this anymore. I want to feel good about what I want. What do I want my days to look like? What do I want my days to feel like for me is a good place to start because then you can get real about what is draining you and what's sustaining you. What is feeding you back?
What is giving back to you in the doing of it so like that that's a really helpful exercise it certainly was for me. ⁓ But also i think one of the joys of hitting midlife as a woman. Is that you're gonna start losing external validation anyway at least in western culture there's so much tied into youth and beauty for women in particular.
that you're gonna start losing at this age because your skin is changing, your body's changing, you're hitting perimenopause, know, and so you're gonna lose some of that. You're not gonna get catcalled the way you once were, right? So if you're losing it anyway, you can take control of that process by letting it go. When you can release your need for that kind of validation, you can start to check into your internal validation. What about yourself do you think is valuable?
Julie Francis (she/her) (09:51)
Yeah.
Rosa Hope, PhD (10:08)
What about yourself do you think ⁓ is important? ⁓ What do you want to give? Like what have you cultivated over the years? What are the skills? What are the insights that you feel compelled to share anyway? ⁓ And I think those are good places to start thinking about this. And as far as exploring, it's like I don't think that's ever really done because we keep changing. So even if you find what is perfect for you at age 30,
You shouldn't be surprised if it's not perfect anymore at 40. I think that's completely natural to need to shift your expectations, to be able to shift the kind of work you're doing to align with where you are on your journey. ⁓ I mean, at least in my, like in my humble opinion, I think that's healthy. Though of course I know there are people that look at me or look at my life path and what they see is chaos.
Julie Francis (she/her) (10:57)
Okay.
Rosa Hope, PhD (11:04)
Because it's like my ability to change what I'm doing or what I'm studying or how I'm working. It looks like I can never make a decision when in reality I'm very decisive. I'm so decisive that when I decide what I'm going to do, I just go do it. So it looks one way and the underlying truth is the opposite, but it's because I am constantly adapting to who I am in that moment and also how my worldview and how would I want.
is changing with time as I grow, as I learn, you know?
Julie Francis (she/her) (11:37)
Yeah. And I love what you said there about how it looks from the outside versus the inside, because you've really honed in on how your own validation has changed to be very internal. You're really clear. You know what you want. And then on these outside perspectives, so much of that perspective is really more about that person or what's influencing them to think that way on the outside. And so some of these things you've already disregarded, so you could do the inner work and just shift what you were doing.
Rosa Hope, PhD (12:01)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (12:07)
One of the things you said, and I love that you said that, it's just like, this has kind of come easy to me because I've always been kind of a rebel. And for me, to a certain extent, and when it comes to, not even to a certain extent, just for me in my life, when I'm like, I'm doing this thing, I do the thing. And I'm curious to know from your perspective, like, what do you think gave you that? I look at that as like a skill and a talent. Some people look at that as being on the fringe and being...
Rosa Hope, PhD (12:33)
and
Julie Francis (she/her) (12:36)
unorthodox and all these other things. But I look at this as a valuable way to navigate life with resilience and to be authentic, really do the things you want.
Rosa Hope, PhD (12:47)
Yeah, you want to know something funny? ⁓ I have been thinking about this lately, because I have been trying to identify what the people who come to work with me have in common. Because again, on paper, everyone looks completely different because it's like tech CEOs, professors, stay at home moms, it does. They don't look again, externally, they don't look the same. ⁓
But what we work on together is the fact that they don't trust themselves they are suffering from immense self doubt and feel like it's so difficult to make decisions. Because they don't have that self trust they don't they it's like they're not in touch with their internal guidance system that got like separated at some point and they need help reconnecting with it we all have it but culture and upbringing and all sorts of things can. ⁓
can separate us from that and I think in myself this isn't something that was given to me this is something that's been always true about me even when I was a tiny child I was extremely self-assured and when I was small sometimes it just looked like me being a know-it-all you know so self-assured
that ⁓ it's like my mom could try to tell me something and I'm like, what do you know? And she's like, you're four, you know?
So, you know, fair, mom. ⁓ that self-assurance has enabled me to trust my decision making. The truth is that it's not that I think I know everything. I know I don't know everything. I'm very comfortable with that because I love to learn. And if I knew everything, there'd be nothing left to learn and I'd be so bored. It'd be awful. So, like, I'm happy not knowing everything because it gives me more to explore.
What I do have a very strong sense of and always have ⁓ is my internal values. I have always known what feels important to me and because of that making decisions hasn't been that hard because I can always check back in with my values and what's important.
And that always points me to what the right decision is. And the right decision is usually not the easy one, right? But I know it's the right one because it aligns with my values, so I know I'm not gonna be plagued with regret or self-doubt or whatever. I think that self-doubt is actually what grows. I think self-doubt is what we cultivate when we make decisions over and over and over again that are not aligned with our actual values. We're choosing based on an external set of values that has been taught to us.
or that we have been told we are supposed to have, but that divorces us from our own internal guidance system. It just wears it away with time. And so in a sense, because I didn't really lose that. ⁓ And I think that's part of why this is kind of the core of the work I do with people, because it's something that I understand and that I have nurtured in the opposite direction. I have strengthened it. ⁓
Julie Francis (she/her) (15:44)
Yeah.
Rosa Hope, PhD (16:07)
I have nourished it and I have a lot of faith in it because I know that when I listen to that internal guidance, when I align with my values, it gives me a life that I love. It gives me relationships that are strong and resilient. ⁓ And I didn't have those when I was in my 20s and reckless and self-destructive. Like when I was making choices that weren't in alignment with my values, I got to see the result of that.
And now I've gotten to see the other side of that coin too. So I have a lot of faith in the power of that work, in the power of, you know, people call it alignment, but what it really is is self-trust. ⁓ And so that's kind of, that's part of who I am and I think that's part of why I'm able to share that. But what you said about it being a skill, I like that because it makes it feel like even if you don't have it now, you can have it and I would agree with that.
Julie Francis (she/her) (16:49)
Yeah.
Rosa Hope, PhD (17:05)
It is something you can cultivate. It is something you can absolutely get back. Your question is like how? And you're gonna have to feel into that. Because it's like you can work with a, you can hire somebody. You can work with a facilitator or a coach or you can go to a retreat. So it's like figuring out how to reconnect is the journey.
Julie Francis (she/her) (17:27)
Yeah, I really like how you talked about how you made specific choices in your 20s that had an alternative result of some sort. And then now you're like, now I know the difference. And I also very much feel that. And I'm wondering if maybe some of our ⁓ listeners feel the same, where maybe if there are people...
listening that have like that rebellious streak that maybe they did kind of have a wild 20s and then they were like, okay, now maybe I should, you know, shift this way and like, wow, that's so neat when I make these choices, these things happen. So I love that you named that because I am still, actually, no, I wouldn't say I'm still, I'm now just more starting to be vocal about that because I think in a period of time in my 30s, I was really embarrassed about that.
Rosa Hope, PhD (18:16)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (18:20)
And now
I've gone through the other side and I'm like, yeah, I made these less than admirable choices at times. And it's part of how I've become who I am now. I really love that you named that. And the other thing I want to know, what do you tell your clients that, for example, ⁓ my own situation, just as an example, that
Rosa Hope, PhD (18:27)
You
Totally.
Julie Francis (she/her) (18:47)
You know, you get to a certain point in your 30s and you're like, this isn't what I want. And then you kick into gear and you're like, I'm living in alignment. I'm doing all the things. And then you are living what feels like your dream life. You're like, wow, this is it. But then as we are in midlife, we're like, holy cow, we have enough life experience to have got the thing we thought we so badly wanted or we're living in alignment with.
Rosa Hope, PhD (19:14)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (19:15)
which is really the thing that gets me because that piece, the piece of being like, you know, being in tune with what's going on around you and being intentional and all this stuff. And you're like, well, this is it. This is my plateau, right? This is my glorious moment of getting what I've always wanted. ⁓ But then for one reason or another, having that completely taken from you or...
having to let it go, or, and we just continue to have so much life experience as we get into our 40s that you're like, wow, that was a roller coaster. And I'd love to hear, like, what do you talk to your clients about when they're, when they thought they had already done the work to do the thing?
Rosa Hope, PhD (19:50)
Mm-hmm.
Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So that so what you're describing, you're are you I'm sure you're familiar with tarot, right? OK, so what you're what you're talking about is something I just call the tower moment because it's shorthand, right? If you've seen the tower card in the tarot deck, the building's burning down. People are jumping out. It's it's the it's like the end of the world or something, right? It's an apocalyptic card where your whole house burns down. ⁓
Julie Francis (she/her) (20:06)
Very much, yeah.
Rosa Hope, PhD (20:27)
And one of the things I have discussed in the past in my integration container is that the tarot tells a story. And it's not just that each card tells a story, the whole deck tells a story. So what is the card that's after the tower? It's the star. And the star is about rebuilding and nurturing and remembering what's important.
Julie Francis (she/her) (20:47)
Mmm.
Rosa Hope, PhD (20:56)
So in the tower everything gets wiped out. You lose everything. I've had this moment in my life too. To me it happened ⁓ at the end of my 20s. know, because like I said, I walked that path. I walked the rocky path where like instead of gently chipping away at ourselves to achieve perfection, I threw myself down the hill so that know smashing against the side of the mountain was helping me reach perfection I guess. ⁓
But, you know, that was a really dark place for me. I actually didn't know, like, when I sort of lost everything. I was like, how do you go on? I remember asking my mom, like, what do people do when this happens? How do you figure out how to go on? And she's like, you just keep doing stuff, I guess, you know. But there's wisdom in what she's saying, which is this kind of focus in, one foot in front of the other type of thing.
And what I love about this sequence, the tower to the star, is that it's telling you that when everything is gone, like in the star card, there's no buildings there, there's no town there, you're starting from scratch. But what you're doing is you're cultivating, you're building anew. And there's balance there, there's balance between earth and water, there's balance between earth and sky. And the reminder in the star card is that
as we're growing whatever's coming next, as we're working on the sort of next phase. ⁓ You can think about it like gardening. I lose almost everything in the wintertime, right? Because these are, know, cucumbers aren't gonna make it more than a couple months, right? So it's like people who are used to working with plants and working with the seasons are used to losing everything in the wintertime. Like it happens. Or when there's a flood, you lose everything too.
And starting fresh, you're not starting with nothing. You're starting with the wisdom that you gained from the last round of this process. And when these things go away, obviously, it makes space for you to cultivate something new using what you have learned. There's no such thing as starting from scratch because you always carry what you learn. Well, you don't have to carry what you learned from before. You can flail and thrash.
and say why me, you know, or you cannot do that. You can say like, well, what do I know now that I didn't know then? I like to say, look at what your values are. Have your values changed based on the experiences that you have had? And then use those as the foundation for the thing that you build next. So when we get these kind of wipeout moments, we have to grieve.
And give ourselves the opportunity to do that and not push that away. Like, of course, you're going to grieve the life you thought you'd be having or grieve the business you thought would be successful or whatever it is. Grieve the career you used to dream of having, but don't anymore. They deserve our grief. They deserve our, you know, that little bit of devotion and love we had for that dream is fine. But
to also see the opportunity at the same time. And once you have had a chance to rest, to emotionally process, to kind of get yourself back together, then to just be mindful and remember to keep your eye on the prize. And the prize is gonna be different based on what's important to you now. So for example, for me, in shifting away from research and towards doing soul work with people, I don't, I'm not looking for,
Awards and stuff like that. I'm not that's not what I care about ⁓ For me a big part of it was definitely lifestyle ⁓ Because I want my body to feel healthy and nourished and have capacity so that I can show up for my people I can't even show up for my family if I am a wreck, you know But if I want to support others and I really do ⁓ Then I need to be cared for I need to I I need to be
fed and watered so that I can show up for them. In fact, that's kind of my biggest piece of advice no matter where you're at is if you are sort of hanging on by a shoestring and again, as women, a lot of times the onus is on us to take care of everybody else and to take care of everybody else's needs. ⁓ But you deserve the same amount of devotion from yourself that you give to others at the very least.
So when people say, this is very cliche, but when people say like, your own oxygen mask on first, that's what they're talking about is that if you are not resourced, if you are not rested, fed and watered, you know, having your basic needs met, how on earth are you gonna show up for others? You know, and it's gonna end up impacting everything around you, your career, your family. None of it is gonna be able to thrive.
if you don't have what you need at the most basic level. So that part is really important also is understanding that when you lose it all, take time to heal first, take time to recover from that, and then get ready to build a new with the sort of mindfulness that comes with it. Build a life that's more balanced than last time. Build a business that's more balanced than last time. And always remember what your new North Star is, because it has probably changed.
Julie Francis (she/her) (26:40)
Yeah. ⁓ I have a couple, couple questions and I'm not sure. I'm going to say them both at the same time because they may be related, but they, it's funny. They didn't pop up to me at the same time. One of them being what guidance do you give your clients that if they feel as though some of their main values are in conflict, one another.
Rosa Hope, PhD (26:41)
You know?
Julie Francis (she/her) (27:09)
And the other piece being that when we're going through so much of what you described about ⁓ we're not really starting anew if we try to bring things that we've learned forward and following our North Star, there's a lot of discomfort that happens in that period of time. And it's so easy for us to sometimes look back in retrospect. It depends, I should say, to look back in retrospect and be like,
yeah, I ended up doing these things and you can remember those like top three to five things that you did that helped you get through those times. And then our brain kind of allows those moments where we cried or, you know, we took really long showers or we just had to lie in bed extra. Like sometimes those moments I feel like get lost. ⁓ So our brain, our brain tends to remember as we build resilience, tends to remember the resilience.
but then forgets about the discomfort. So the discomfort sometimes come back as a surprise when you're like, I've never felt like this before. Oh wait, we know, I have. And like it becomes this foreign thing, which I imagine is some of our body and minds ways of helping us go forward. So those are, yeah, intermingled.
Rosa Hope, PhD (28:12)
Yeah.
Yeah, so, well, just sort of start with the first one. I have not found, at least in my practice, that when people hold values that are self-defined, that they are actually in conflict with each other. What I have found way more often is that when you have conflicting values, it's because some of them are externally sourced. People's internally,
Directed values tend to be pretty self consistent once they really know what they are. So, ⁓ you know, I've spent a lifetime studying mysticism, psychology, Jungian psychology, and I'm very academic. So my tendency is self analysis, right? And I do this to myself and I do this with my clients too. So it's, you know, you can call it soul searching, but it's all the same thing.
And when you find yourself with conflicting values, it's time to dive in. It's time to dive in and find out what it's all about. And in my private practice, like with my clients, one of the most powerful tools I use is actually hypnosis. Because through hypnosis, we can get the kind of analytical or controlling aspect of the self to go like, lay down on the beach in Cabo while we have a real conversation at depth.
Julie Francis (she/her) (29:54)
Hahaha!
Rosa Hope, PhD (29:54)
And, ⁓ but that
can be really important for people because it helps the kind of self-limiting aspects of self get out of the way so we can have a real conversation about where these values are coming from and why we hold them and getting those types of answers usually resolves this type of conflict because either something's coming from the outside, it was learned from parents, sometimes it's like ancestral even. So it's like
It's not even that it belonged to your mom. It's that it was her great-grandmothers and it got like passed down through the generations in a kind of subconscious behavioral way that translated into you believing it's important when it's not. ⁓ But I, you know, so it's the very short version of my answer to that is go deep. Find out where those values are coming from. And then get really real with yourself about what belongs to you and what doesn't.
And the truth is that the values that are yours, when you make decisions based on those values, it leads to ⁓ more enjoyment of your life, better relationships, a stronger embrace of your human experience. And when you make choices based on values that aren't really yours, you will just feel more and more out of sync with yourself. You'll always feel like something's wrong. You'll always feel misunderstood, like people don't get you.
Julie Francis (she/her) (31:13)
No.
Rosa Hope, PhD (31:14)
all those things get nurtured because when you're making decisions based on someone else's values, you're showing the world that you're somebody you're not.
So, you know, mean, it feels really basic to be like introspection, but like, you know, that's my answer in brief. ⁓
Julie Francis (she/her) (31:30)
Yeah.
I love how you summed it up by like go deep. you're whatever, whatever avenue you've got to find or research just to consider, even just that you just bullet listed several things that ⁓ could be sources is huge for some people. They've never even considered those things. And I think that unraveling that is mind blowing. And I feel like sometimes people have to have those mind blowing moments to be like, ⁓ that's what introspection.
Rosa Hope, PhD (31:50)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (32:02)
can lead to. I think everybody has to have that moment to find value in it because without it, it's this nebulous idea that everybody talks about if you're in certain circles. I think that's a really good point. That was phenomenal advice. Really good.
Rosa Hope, PhD (32:17)
Mm-hmm.
I'm like, what was the second question?
Julie Francis (she/her) (32:25)
I
know, So that's why I was like, I kind of wanted to see where you were going to go with it if I gave you both at the same time. So, and I love, I love your values answer. So the discomfort we feel that sometimes we forget it or we forgot that we've gone through it, but like also what can we tell people that are going through it, that are in the thick of it?
Rosa Hope, PhD (32:43)
huh.
Yeah. Okay. This is one of my favorite, like, quips. So, I say this often, but I...but because it's powerful. Sorry. Yeah, I know. In all seriousness, though, hard does not equal bad.
Julie Francis (she/her) (33:00)
I'm I'm so excited.
Mmm, yeah.
Rosa Hope, PhD (33:12)
In our culture, we are constantly sold this idea that if something feels hard or is tough to get through, it is bad for us and that's just not true. In fact, you know, for me this really came through with sharp clarity during childbirth. I went through a natural childbirth ⁓ almost in my living room. That wasn't supposed to happen, but you know, like...
Sometimes the initiation is through the fire, right? And in the moment when that was happening for me, I know that I've heard all these stories about women talking about how painful it is and so on and so forth. And that was not my experience of it. There was one painful moment when my child was literally exiting my body, but the whole rest of it really wasn't painful. It was extremely intense. It was intense.
Julie Francis (she/her) (33:40)
you
Rosa Hope, PhD (34:08)
So in moments, in these kind of letting go moments or these tower moments where everything's falling apart, we're gonna have a lot of emotions around that because we have attachments to our plans, to the things that we've created. Of course we do, we're gonna have grief. We might have some depression or hopelessness. These are all really powerful and intense emotions. But just because you're having intense emotions,
that are related to loss and related to grief doesn't make them bad. I have never thought to myself that grief is bad. Grief is showing you how much you love somebody or something. It is pointing to love. It is trying to teach you about the power of love. You know what I mean? So calling it bad is a judgment call.
that I don't feel is really necessary. I think we are taught these things, but you can dismantle that. I mean, it's like my four-year-old self with my mom. I don't have to believe what she says, you know? Like, I can reframe it in a way that is actually supportive of myself. And so when you're going through these intense moments, and it's not like I don't have hard times, we were talking about this before we started, which is like hard times and dark nights don't go away.
just because you're conscious of your, just because you have self-awareness or just because you meditate now doesn't mean life isn't gonna happen.
The reason we do this stuff, the reason we do personal development, the reason we do spiritual development isn't so hard stuff goes away, it's so we can handle it better.
So even if the mind forgets the difficulties we felt before or the depths of despair we felt before, you can just feel it now and understand that the depth of it, the intensity of it doesn't actually mean it's bad for you. This is the process of you letting go. Can you turn it into a problem? Yes, because if you decide you're gonna wallow in it or take a bath in it or even become attached to it, it can become a problem because you'll get stuck.
But as long as you understand your emotion as a way for you to process what's happening to you, you can see it from a different perspective. You don't have to judge the emotion you're feeling at all. You can just say that's where you're at in this moment. This morning, I feel worthless. But inside of recognizing how you feel is...
the innate understanding that you have felt differently before and you will feel differently again.
Julie Francis (she/her) (36:47)
Yes. Yeah. That nothing is permanent.
Rosa Hope, PhD (36:55)
Mm-hmm.
Julie Francis (she/her) (36:56)
That's powerful. That's very powerful. I love hearing everything you got to share. I'm so thrilled with the perspective that you bring. I love the analytical. I love the parts of you that I can feel are more academic. like, you know, the word you used was like very cerebral. Like, I just love how you bring it all together. I think it's phenomenal. And I know that you've got something
Rosa Hope, PhD (37:00)
Well, and it's...
Julie Francis (she/her) (37:24)
coming up this month that you're working on. I'd love for you to share with us about that.
Rosa Hope, PhD (37:29)
Sure, sure. So as I mentioned before, one of the main tools that I use in my practice is hypnosis. And if anyone who's listening is interested in kind of dipping their toes in and seeing what that might be like, I have an online live offering on December 6th that is pay as you wish. So you can contribute and join or you can just receive it as my gift to you. I would love to see some of y'all there to explore
how hypnosis can teach you more about yourself and your soul's journey.
Julie Francis (she/her) (38:03)
Amazing. That's wonderful. I think that making it pay as you will is so empowering and supportive in this time where we need it so much. And make sure to put that link in the show notes below so you'll have easy access to it there if you're listening or watching. And I would love for you to lead us with one more nugget of wisdom, Rosa. So could you tell us if you could sum up in
one sentence or a few words, how somebody could navigate their own chaos, what would it be?
Rosa Hope, PhD (38:39)
There is something that, there's a quote from Ram Dass that I really love and have come to depend on in my own life time and time again.
which is that if you follow your heart, there is nothing to fear. And again, that doesn't mean nothing bad is gonna happen. What it means is if you make choices in alignment with your values, you will always be able to handle what comes.
Julie Francis (she/her) (39:08)
That is beautiful.
Thank you for sharing that. Rosa, this has been so absolutely wonderful talking with you. Thank you so much for coming on to share your wisdom and your perspective. And I look forward to seeing what else you begin to do in the world this year and into next year.
Rosa Hope, PhD (39:11)
Thank you Julie. Totally.
Totally. Well, thank you so much for having me, Julie. This has been a lot of fun and I appreciate you. Thank you.
Julie Francis (she/her) (39:37)
Thank you.
In this episode, I sit down with the brilliant and deeply grounded Rosa Hope, PhD—award-winning astrophysicist, mentor, and mystic—for a raw, illuminating conversation on midlife awakening, self-trust, and the courage to rewrite a life that looks “successful” on paper but feels misaligned in the body.
Rosa shares her powerful story of leaving a prestigious research career after it began to erode her health, energy, and sense of self. She opens up about the moment everything cracked open, how she learned to listen beneath the noise of achievement, and why “just because you can doesn’t mean you should” might be the most liberating midlife tagline.
Together, we explore the tower moments that reorder a life, the grief and grace of letting old identities fall away, the long journey back to internal validation, and the deep work of reclaiming your values when the world has taught you to override them.
If you’re standing at a crossroads, questioning the path you’re on, or wondering whether the discomfort you’re feeling is a sign—you’ll find so much resonance in this conversation.
Rosa’s wisdom is an anchor: soulful, practical, and fiercely honest.
Let’s talk about what becomes possible when you follow your inner compass, trust your enough-ness, and remember that hard does not equal bad.
Join Rosa for her Pay-What-You-Wish Past Life Regression + Meet Your Guides online workshop on Saturday, December 6, 2025 at 1pm EST / 10am PST / 6pm GMT. Learn more here: https://rosa-hope.com/online
Connect with Rosa (she/her/they/them)
Website: https://www.rosa-hope.com
Instagram: https://instagram.com/itsrosahope
Facebook: https://facebook.com/itsrosahope
